146049-give-the-mordesh-some-love
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- Pre-Contagion Mordesh architecture has been said to resemble Victorian architecture, and I believe the devs said that post-Contagion (since joining up with the Exiles) that their decor design started mixing in bits of steampunk. | |} ---- The first part makes sense. Well, I mean as much sense as a far-flung race on the other side of an alien galaxy just *happening* to design buildings that look like a certain point in Earth history. Okay. On second thought, that doesn't make sense either, but whatever, it doesn't hurt my brain. But since the Contagion and subsequent joining of the Exiles, have they not all been lumped together in the arkships, looking for a new home? How (better yet WHY?) would they be building houses on an arkship, hurdling through space? That don't make no sense. In order to have a style of architecture, does it not stand to reason that one would actually have to be BUILDING things? WildStar Lore is so god-awful mixed up sometimes. | |} ---- It's as though you were spending a lot of time hidden in the walls of my cubicle a few months ago. ...are you in the walls of my cubicle right now? Maybe; maybe not. Speculation can be fun! | |} ---- I can neither confirm nor deny. All I know is the snack selection sucks. | |} ---- Not houses, just furniture. I'm sure there were still architects/craftsmen on those huge ships, and they probably said something like "wow, this human chair sucks. I really want to sit in like.. a really nice Mordesh chair again. But also, maybe I can add something to it to support my awful, rotting body, because this Contagion really sucks." And then, bam, suddenly Victorian Steampunk. But seriously-- I don't mind if the developers got ahead of themselves when they pitched that decor. Maybe their designers got held up on the whole "Victorian/Steampunk" design doc, and maybe that's why we haven't seen anything related to Mordesh housing/decor yet. Who knows? I wouldn't mind if they took it in a new direction either (although the Victorian decor would have been a sweet addition). It's just too bad that right now, all those poor home-less Mordesh don't even have a house to call their own. Why you gotta' make things worse for the race that arguably already has it the worst, Carbine~? | |} ---- Also mildly amused that one of the most technologically advanced, highly-intelligent, scientific-minded, warp-drive building, alchemy-solving races in the known universe has to resort to STEAMPUNK?!?! I mean ... really? Brass cogs and steam-power when they have access to ultra-carbonite polymers and super-structural metallurgy? | |} ---- ---- There may be more than one person in my walls!? I can't tell you that some Mordesh and/or Mechari housing stuff is currently in the works. | |} ---- When your home is just an Arkship and you don't really have the opportunity to stop and resupply as often as you want to, with resources being as low as they are (I recall- and this is probably my most vivid memory of the starting area on the Arkship- that there was a Rowsdowner herder on the ship, with an entire flock of Rowsdowners, and I thought it was interesting they were still straight-up just farming on the Arkship, livestock and all) then you probably don't waste all those same resources on "more comfortable furniture". If cogs work, and they're easy to make, and they don't take the same polymers and metallurgy that your life-giving implants need to manage the flow of your cannibalism-deterring medicine, then you don't knock the idea of cogs. That's all speculation, though. | |} ---- All I heard was "some Mordesh and/orMechari housing stuff is currently in the works." | |} ---- Oh sure. And to be clear, I am not poo-poo'ing the idea of either Mordesh or Mechari styles of decor, buildings, whatever ... I'm all about more stuff for Housing. | |} ---- ---- Do their houses come with shoes? xD | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- They were probably building that way on Grismara after the Contagion hit. What you have to keep in mind is that most of the Mordesh were stuck on Grismara for over 50 years before the Exiles got them through blockade and into the fleet, they were actually living that way for longer than they've even been with the Exiles to date. 50+ years attempting to join the non-infected together and form a new community with little to no infrastructure in a broken/post-apocalyptic society. It isn't that odd that they would "resort to steampunk." A lot of scifi/fantasy steampunk stories have similar, post-apocalyptic setups. Edited November 4, 2015 by futrix | |} ---- They were always Elves, I think the gloomy and gothic came after the contagion. | |} ---- Agreed, right with ya buddy! | |} ---- The Mordesh that got off Grismara were evacuated almost immediately (with in months, to a year or two tops), not after 50 years. Virtually all the Mordesh were extinct from Vitalus/Contagion within weeks after the first cases of Ravenous were reported. The Mordesh have spent around 80 years on the Exile fleet, Basically the time between present and the initial outbreak of the Contagion. CRB HernCO had some stuff to say about Mordesh and Mechari Architecture: "Mordesh architecture and aesthetics in the pre-Contagion age landed somewhere between Victorian England and the castle of that mad king in Germany or Austria, but with an overlay of what you might call alchemical steampunk. Their understanding of primal powers (what they called "humours") involved lots of brass, pneumatic tubing, weird bubbling vials and casks filled with multicolored flued, lightning, and the occasional donated corpse. These days they've kept the alchemical steampunk - because that's the stuff that's keeping them all in a state of something resembling life - but for the most part haven't built any permanent structures evoking the old days. It's pretty painful for the Mordesh to be reminded of those times, so they tend to simply use structures built by others, such as pre-fab laboratories or even a simple wooden house. That said, rumor has it some brave Mordesh architects are behind a Grismaran Nouveau design and architecture movement that could see them gingerly returning to some of those old aesthetics as time passes, blending their best memories of the old with the pragmatism of the new (and, unless someone does something about it, doomed). Mechari are a bit different, since they were purpose-built by the Eldan (even though they are fully sentient and have free will thanks to their soul cores). General Mechari aesthetic sense was largely defined by their creators, the Eldan, as was the Dominion itself. It's one of the reasons Mechari fit in so well with Cassian architecture, and for a long time saw no reason to reinvent those particular wheels. With the Eldan gone to space knows where, however, some Mechari - even a few Millennials - have begun experimenting with new forms of architecture that has yet to appear on the scene. There may yet emerge a Mechari Modern to go with Grismaran Nouveao before you know it." | |} ---- Chad Moore disagrees: http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=32760&storypage=2 Not only did the Exile evacuation take 50 years to begin, it was a process that occurred over ~10 years. Here is a pretty good outline of events in a timeline form: http://www.wildstar-roleplay.com/forum/m/11410152/viewthread/5918368-timeline-wip Edited November 3, 2015 by futrix | |} ---- The official time line is more reliable https://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/stories/ Pappy and Donatelli mentioned that in an interview years ago. HernCO just a few weeks ago said this: "long did it take to break the Dominion blockade I just looked up that Mordesh question for someone on Twitter. Let me find it... okay, can't find it, and I don't have the timeline here at my home office. But I'm almost positive it was 17 years or so. 17 very harrowing and unpleasant years." Also, Both accounts (from Donatelli / Pappy & HernCO) are contrary to in game lore, which suggest Avra had secured access codes, exile aid, and broken the Dominion Barricade in just 4-5 days after the outbreak and onset of the Dominion Blockade in the Lore entries "Fall of Grismara 1-3" (specifically in 2 and 3, where the Arovolkin is shot down on the first day of the blockade, and part 3 which explicitly states the time they heard from the "Widow" with a stealth ship and access codes en-route was on the evening of the 4th day since being shot down. http://wildstar.gamepedia.com/The_Fall_of_Grismara,_Part_1 http://wildstar.gamepedia.com/The_Fall_of_Grismara,_Part_2 http://wildstar.gamepedia.com/The_Fall_of_Grismara,_Part_3 Regardless of whether it was 5 days, 17 years or 30 years, It's a safe assumption that no one was building anything pretty during space zombie apocalypse | |} ---- ---- It is possible to Mordesh Up a home, but making them from scratch is problematic due to sky problems. A nice rolling thunderstorm is great ambiance for a moody mordesh nest, but if you are not using a "House" then there is the issue of rain inside your custom structure. | |} ---- ---- mordesh have gone through worse than rain :) i'm sure they could handle it. but seeing that they were once a people of elegance and awesomeness only rivaled by the cassian, then I could see your point. | |} ---- Yes, it is. So is that house. Steampunk is awesome. Also, very popular. Also one more reason to play Exiles and not Dominion. Good gravy. Exiles get Browncoats, Lolis, Steampunk Elves and Drunk Rock Dudes. Dominion get zealots/snobs, insane rodents, robots without voices and lizard men. Yeah. Let that sink in. Now wonder why the Dominion side is ALWAYS going to be less popular. *GEE I WONDER?* | |} ---- Chua not insane.... Chua just.... misunderstood | |} ---- why thank you! I put a lot of work into it lol. And yeah I feel yah. When I first played this game (back in the hayday) I was all about them Exiles. Loved my Mordesh especially. But, now that I came back for the f2p, I decided to give the Dommies a fair shot. And may I say... I still think I like the Exiles better :X Maybe it's because I'm unguilded though? Exiles I played with a bunch of awesome folk. Dominion, I play with only my roommate lol. | |} ---- ---- I disagree with this, actually. I'm a much bigger fan of the Dominion lineup than the Exile one. I won't bother talking down the Exiles, since I think they're neat in their own way, but to flip your other description, Dominion get Mechas, Dragonlike, Dichotomous Insano-Adorbs Furry Ones, and Cool Haircut Humans. :P Also worth mentioning, people on Domside RP Cassians as both highborn and lowborn. The snob epithet doesn't fit in many cases. In some cases we've even got drunken lechers... like Corrigan Doon. ;) | |} ---- Sadly, while I agree with your assessment, the VAST majority of WildStar players do not seem to see it that way. They see exactly what I described. I've really come to love the Dominion, but out of the dozens of Exile players I know well, I was able to convince exactly ONE of them to come play Dominion with me. Everyone else says the same thing: They just like the Exile races more and none of the Dominion races interest them the same way. | |} ---- Or magnanimous hero's like Toric, or brash though cocky adventurers like Zin... Chua aren't insane, they evolved an ultra high pain tolerance and the ability to survive complete environmental toxicity and massive injury, so they never had a need to be as delicate with their pranks and science as other races. | |} ---- I am in that boat as well. Personally, I like the Exile races way better. I AM playing Dom now for 3 reasons. 1. to give em a shot 2. convinced my roommate to play exile at launch, so f2p he convinced me to play Dom 3. (and probably most importantly) I was able to get names I really liked for my Dom characters. Im the type of person that if I do not like how my character looks/name is, then I will not play that character. | |} ---- A few points: 1. The "official timeline" is irrelevant here. Not a single part of it makes mention of the Exile-led evacuation. It simply discusses the weeks after the Contagion and the start of the Dominion blockade. 2. Seventeen years is still very different than "a year or two." Also note that the "17 years" quote came with a very specific indication that it was an 'off the top of the head' response that should be taken lightly. Especially in light of their more specific responses. 3. I didn't say nobody got out or ran the blockage before 50 years. I said that, according to Pappy, the Exiles made a concerted effort to run the blockade 50 years after the Contagion to get the remaining Mordesh off. As far as we know, it would be the final period of evacuation. Obviously the blockade was successfully run before then, quite a few times I would imagine. Any number of non-Exile groups could have attempted it. The in-game tale about the Ekose saving three Mordesh with a little help that Widow arranged is just one such example. I wouldn't say that example runs "contrary" to anything though, even if the group that she convinced to help was from an Exile ship. It is just one tale of three Mordesh getting off and being spared the decades on Grismara that would follow. 4. Purely a subjective point, but I see no reason why it is "a safe assumption that no one was building anything pretty during space zombie apocalypse." They were stuck on that world for a long time, even if you go with the maybe 17 years quote and ignore the more definitive 50 years sources. Years and years of fighting the ravenous and huddling the survivors together. Nearly every zombie story you can think of has humans forming up to build walls and scavenging/growing food. It is basically required to build a community and fortified structures at that point, especially if you need industry just enough to produce food or something like the Vitalus serum for all those years. If your point was specifically on "pretty" then.... where are you getting "pretty?" We are talking about steampunk here. Basically a cheap industrial look of cobbled machinery. You can tinker with it a little for style, sure, but it isn't required when discussing steampunk. One small edit/addition on the point of "contradictions." While I outlined above how I don't think you've found one here, I'm sure you could if you dug deep enough, as with any IP. It isn't easy to write long stories and backgrounds without making mistakes. All the writers can do is clarify where possible (which they have in the link I provided) and hope people don't attempt to read every entry with the intent of reading contradictions into the work rather than considering how they might fit together. Edited November 3, 2015 by futrix | |} ---- If you're going to omit the badass lizard girls who look great in anything your analysis is hopelessly flawed I say. FLAWED! *harumphs while hugging her Draken characters* | |} ---- Yeah, Draken ladies are awesome. No doubt about it. But look at how lopsided that *still* is ... even considering the one amazing sex-race combination, that still leaves the Exiles pretty much everything else in the "hugely popular" category. We get "Femme Fatale and Her Hunchback Mate!" Exiles get Mr. and Mrs. Snuggle Bunny and friends! | |} ---- ---- As a Mordesh Stalker, I sort of resemble that remark. | |} ---- Edited November 4, 2015 by Nazryn | |} ---- 1. I'll say it again. The "official timeline" is irrelevant here. Not a single part of it makes mention of the Exile-led evacuation. It simply discusses the weeks after the Contagion and the start of the Dominion blockade. If you want to use the "official timeline" to outline when the blockade was run, you would need that content to actually BE IN said timeline. The timeline doesn't touch the subject. 2. That would mean something if there were a contradiction. It isn't a contradiction to say that Exiles helped get three (and maybe even more) Mordesh off the planet early in the outbreak while still acknowledging that most Mordesh survived on Grismara for 50 years until a later push against the blockade. 3. I provided sourcing for 50 years. I didn't make claims about what may be out there. Regardless, unless they decided to go back on those statements later, Mordesh being on Grismara for 50 years is still set in stone, even if something happened after 17 years too. They aren't mutually exclusive. You keep having this mentality that there is some contradiction here. You might as well be saying that today cannot be Tuesday because Tuesday is actually next week. 4. There is so much wrong here... No, the in-game version of Fall of Grismara set talks about how expensive the Everlife Elixir (not Vitalus) was and indicated that it might be possible to be turned immediately through a single narrative of one first-person example. This obviously wasn't the case for everyone (or even common) because in the "official timeline" version of Fall of Grismara (which you place on oh-so-high a pedestal) explains that the injections continued over the course of weeks with the final gruesome result only being publicly known those weeks later. Since it took weeks for the effects to emerge in general for the populous and since injunctions went on for weeks without the issue being known, we can deduce that the "Day of Celebration" from the timeline wasn't the first day that the Elixir was sold, but a date held for weeks afterwards in celebration of a successful global inoculation. This tells us that anyone suffering immediate transformations are likely remote and isolated incident and that the woman who turned "within minutes" in Fall of Grismara: part 3 (in-game version) likely took the elixir much later than most others. Another interpretation is that she may have already been infected by the Contagion, simply accelerating the changes she was already going through when she drank the elixir - the Contagion is contagious after all and she very well could have been infected for weeks prior. Either way, this pushes the events of the in-game Fall of Grismara events back by weeks as well. So to your question of "Could those three separate in-game lore entries be incorrect?" I respond: Could they not all be correct side-by-side with out-of-game sources when you think about it? It simply isn't that hard to take what we read from various sources and piece together what we have into a working, contradiction-free timeline. It is so easy to do in fact, that it was done over a year ago in a thread I already linked. 5. They did. 6. Remember that any in-game, NPC-written lore is not necessarily 100% truth. It is merely interpretation of events from a character's perspective, memory, etc. Many game studios write in-game stories with the intent to deceive, highlighting the influence of perspective and showing the errors of first-person accounts (Bethesda is a big example of this if you are familiar with TES lore). So giving a toss-up to in-game lore is actually the WORST thing you can do when the writers contradict in-game lore OOC. Though I still stand by the idea that there isn't really a contradiction here when you take the writing in-game in the context of out-of-game interviews. On the contrary, it's entirely subjective, pure imagination. You have no situation to compare it to in real-life to make it an objective observation. I have plenty of fictional examples I could name that fit my idea of Grismaran life, but at least I admit that my vision of that life based on other works of fiction would be subjective and pure imagination. And architecture "art" and isn't always complicated or time consuming, especially if it is steampunk which is known for being neither of those things, not that that matters when you have decades of downtime between manning fortifications and manufacturing Vitalus. I can imagine a lot more productivity than you can given decades and the formation of a community post-apocalypse. Apparently the writers can too. Edited November 4, 2015 by futrix | |} ---- ---- There, fixed it for you. I know you are trying to be funny, but I am really sick of the two races that already have the most stuff Aurin/Chua being butts in threads where the less fleshed out races are asking for things. | |} ---- ---- ---- Anyway Futrix, I made a thread in the Lore forums to ask for clarification. Feel free to continue our discussion there. Lets let this one get back on track. -Naz Edited November 4, 2015 by Nazryn | |} ---- 1. This gets sticky when you say simply "the Fall of Grismara" because both the official timeline section on the website relating to the Mordesh AND the narration accounts you find in-game in game are BOTH called "Fall of Grismara." Now, what I've been telling you is the link to the "official timeline" that you kept referencing as relevant to when the evacuation of the planet started did not actually contain any information on when the evacuation started. Did it contain information "relevant to lore," yes. Did it contain information relevant to any discussion on when the exiles started running the blockade, no. That was my point and you are just playing games of semantics now by talking of its relevance in any other light I was not addressing. 2. Obviously I'm referring to most survivors, more semantics... 3. I've clarified this SOOOOOOOO many times already. The writers describe the blockade running as something that occurred 50 years later. If they have lore that says it also happened earlier (which they do), fine. It doesn't erase the notion that the blockade was being primarily run much much later just because it happened earlier too. Yes Tuesday was yesterday, but Tuesday will still happen next week. So the blockade was run at least some before a final concerted effort happening 50 years after the Fall. I concede that. I'm not interested in semantics about "the first time." This whole thing started because you didn't think they were running the blockade at all 50 years later because you insisted that all the stable Mordesh were long gone by then and then I had to dig up sources. Now we are playing games of semantics about when the first time was, I don't care about that. Don't forget that the context here was all relating to Tex Arcana's confusion on Mordesh building houses on spaceships and why their tech might have taken steps backwards if they went to the Exile fleet right away. 4. You are agreeing with me. Did you mean to write this in contrast to something I said? 5. And what I was saying is that the Ceremony would have happened weeks later, after the Elixir distribution, if we are to take both stories into account. It wasn't an "unveiling address," that is just something you assumed. Nowhere in any of the writing does it say that the ceremony happened on day-one of the Elixir being available because that wouldn't make sense, people wouldn't still be taking the Elixir for the weeks after if the Ceremony was crashed in such a way on day-one. The ceremony would have had to have been something that occurred AFTER the weeks of global distribution, to celebrate its completion. Reread my post if you didn't catch that explanation. 6. Sure it could have been, I just disagree that it has been because it is easy to fit these stories together into one working timeline. 7. And you can claim that all you want, but every example of in-game lore you've referenced (with their vague scales of time and no dates) I've had no problem explaining in the context of the sources indicating 50-years of post-apocalyptic Grismaran life. That includes your "we don't have time to build a structure" spiel which isn't even a discussion on written lore or the interviews. I'm not the only one to have taken the time to organize these events into a working order that doesn't contradict the writing either. This leg-work was all done before me. If you want your response to be in a different thread, fine. If I look at it it will be after sleep. | |} ---- I won't be reiterating what I've already said. We have conflicting stories from the lore and from the writers. Either As per the Fall of Grismara parts 1-3 AND official timeline story: The Elixer was sold, and caused immediate spread of the contagion; which caused SOME to immediately become ravenous. Within a few weeks all of Grismara was dead, ravenous, or part of a small group of infected with access to Vitalus to keep from becoming Ravenous. During this period, The Dominion Blockaded Grismara as soon as the threat was detected and identified. The first day of the Blockade as the ravenous were taking over the planet, a ship was shot down, the survivors of the crash plus some others fortified the crash site and used the ships payload of smuggled weapons to hold out for just under 5 days before receiving word of impending rescue by an Exile stealth ship which had broken the Dominion blockade with codes from Avra Darkos. This scenario: Dominion Blockade broken within a week(s) of it being instituted. As per Pappy, Donatellie, and HernCO: Many decade(s) passed between the Contagion and virtual extinction of the Mordesh and breaking the Dominion blockade to BEGIN saving any Mordesh from the planets surface, requiring the remaining infected but not yet ravenous Mordesh to survive on a dead planet for at least 17 years while simultaneously acquiring pure primal life from a planet with no or extremely little life besides the ravenous to make Vitalus serum to keep themselves from turning ravenous as well as maintaining enough weaponry and ammunition to keep the Ravenous from killing them for at least 17 years. This scenario: Dominion Blockade broken only after 17-50 years of it being instituted. Feel free to join the other thread, otherwise sleep well and have a good day. Edited November 4, 2015 by Nazryn | |} ---- ---- ----